September 14, 2015
Trumpmania has infected everything, including my parenting blog. My piece comparing Trump’s rhetoric to the white supremacists I’ve studied for almost 30 years went viral, pushing Watching the Wheels way over 100,000 views. As it spread, I started doing interviews, including with Spanish languages radio stations and a newspaper in Spain. On Wednesday, I will be appearing on Al Jazeera’s The Stream to talk Trump. The blog got reposted on Countrpunch and my comment section has taken on a life of its own.
If you are one of the few folks who hasn’t clicked on that post, here it is:
“Donald Trump is the new face of white supremacy,” says hate crime expert.
I promise to get back to writing about my daughter later this week. She’s doing amazing things. But I wanted to further clarify my argument about the GOP front-runner and reality show star. First, let me be clear, I don’t think all of Trump’s supporters are racists, even though people at his rallies have been chanting “White power!” and talking about killing immigrants and at least two of his followers have been arrested for committing a hate crime against a Latino man in Boston. To borrow from Mr. Trump, some of his followers, I assume, are good people.
It’s clear from Trump’s followers that America’s favorite billionaire can do no wrong. This includes lie. Trump “tells it like it is.” To allude to Bill Clinton at his worst, it depends on what your definition of “is” is. Trump makes up “facts” that are completely untrue but the followers follow unquestioningly. There’s an f word for that; fascism.
Trump is a demagogue in the truest sense of the word. He could come out in favor of eating immigrant babies and his Trumpies would cheer, “What a brilliant idea!” A study found that when you give a Trumpie a classic liberal issue but say that Trump supports it, they suddenly support it. Another survey found that 66% of his supporters think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. These are followers in the truest sense and they remind me of the white supremacist followers I’ve spent my life studying. They want a black and white world and an easy solution, like build a wall.
But what I really wanted to write about was the techniques Trump borrows from Klansman, neo-Nazis, Patriot Militia members and other extremists on the far right. This is how you create a movement based on hate and fear.
Anecdotes – Trump is the master of using one crime story to “prove” that Mexican immigrants are rapists and killers. He’ll drag a few headlines out from cases that are far from resolved. (You’re innocent until proven guilty in America, unless have brown skin and can be used by Trump.) He denies two very important facts. People are overwhelming raped and killed by people they know. (Sorry, white people. Most crime is intra-racial, not inter-racial.) And repeated studies show that immigrants have lower crime rates than non-immigrants.
I’ve seen more than one Nazi skinhead and Klansman point to story in the news about a black criminal to prove their racism, ignoring ALL the stories about crime committed by whites. It’s called selective perception. They are still talking about OJ! Proof black people are BAD.
Conspiracy theories – We can all enjoy a good conspiracy theory. Who killed JFK? The illegal aliens from Roswell! You know who really loved conspiracy theories? Adolf Hitler. The Jews run the banks! Get ‘em! This funny little theory is still popular with neo-Nazis, Islamic extremists and Lyndon Larouche. I like to ask my Jewish friends when the next cabal meeting is and they just look confused. Those sneaky Jews.
Donald Trump has his own conspiracy theory. The Mexican government is sending its worst people across the border. His only evidence of this is that he’s “talked to people” on the border who know. Right. My wife came to America from Mexico by walking across a border, so I asked her who sent her to the USA. She said her mother. Oh, those clever Mexicans.
Conspiracy theories give simple people a simple view of how the world works and allow them to sidestep the complexities of reality. Illegal immigration is a complex issue. “Ow! That makes my brain hurt! Donald says it’s the clever Mexican government pulling one over on our stupid leaders in Washington!” Um, most of those leaders are Congressional Republicans that you voted for. “Ow! My brain!”
Us vs. them – White supremacists love to see themselves as a defined tribe that is under siege by external enemies. Jews, homosexuals, African-Americans. Basically 3/4 of the cast of The View. They see themselves as the “real” Americans, or as the 1920s Klan said, “100% American.” The homosexuals are destroying traditional (arranged?) marriage! Muslims are destroying our (WASP) religious monopoly!
Trump sees America under attack, by Mexican immigrants, Chinese businessmen (“They’re killing us,” he keeps saying) and mad nuclear scientists in Iran. He has no time for our internal problems unless he can simply blame it on “stupid leaders.” You know, because he has such a clear solution to childhood poverty, failing schools and America’s obesity epidemic. “I’ll hire the best people,” he keeps saying. Um, the President of the United States doesn’t hire anybody, Donnie.
The bullet points Trump uses were lifted right from Dylan Roof, the young man who killed nine people in a black church in Charleston this spring. Roof said, as his massacre of the black parishioners was under way, “You rape our women, and you’re taking over our country, and you have to go.” Trump says that at every stop.
Apocalyptic visions – White supremacists see the end coming very soon. They think that Obama is going to suspend democracy and herd whites into camps. Or that Black Lives Matters activists are going to just declare open season on white people. Christian extremists like the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nations folks see a biblical confrontation looming. They call it “Rahowa,” short for Racial Holy War. So if “we don’t do something,” America as we know it will be ripped from our (white) hands.
Trump does the exact same thing. Walking on stage to REM’s “It’s the End of the World As We Know It” (unironically) only made the point that much more clear. Does he feel fine about it? You betcha, because all this end times talk lifts his numbers in the polls. It’s a classic technique used by Nazis, gun dealers, and used car salesman. “Things are about to change so buy this Uzi/Pinto/Trump vote right now or you’ll regret it!” Trump has his followers believing that if they don’t vote for him, America will become a 4th World nation in a matter of days.
The thing that makes Trump a fascist is that all this is built on a cult of personality. He’s hard not to watch. I feel addicted to him at times. But listen to him talk. It’s all about him. How popular he is and how rich he is and how good looking he is. Just look at that face! There is no discussion about real Americans and the real issues they are struggling with or finding success with. Much has written about Trump’s narcissism but I would just like a word count of the number of times he uses the word “I.”
So why do so many Americans follow this buffoon? There are two very simple reasons. The first is he speaks in simple terms. Health care is a complex issue. Just say it’s “illegal aliens” having “anchor babies” on your tax dollar. It’s us verses them and them has a big conspiracy running out of Mexico City and Bejing. What 5-year-old couldn’t understand that? Keep it simple. America was better in the past (when, he hasn’t said) so let’s make America great again. Say it over and over. It’s the new “White power!” mantra.
The second reason is that he’s got a convenient scapegoat. If this was 1980, he’d blame Japan and Iran and he’d have lots of followers. In 1988, white America was ready to blame all it’s problem on black criminals and Bush Sr. rode into the White House on the back of Willie Horton. Now the “I’m not racist, but…” Americans are ready to lay the blame on a familiar target. It’s not on the corporate elites, many of whom are stealing money right out of the accounts of Trump’s followers. Instead, let’s go after the folks on the bottom who are working in fields and meat packing plants and cannot defend themselves like Trump’s friends on Wall Street can. It’s a brilliant strategy and it’s working because it plays right into the racism that flows under the surface of polite American discourse. And Trump Bonus, black people can hate brown people now! You guys aren’t the rapists this time!
At the start of the summer, I thought Trump’s candidacy was a joke. In 2000, I thought bumbling coke head George W. Bush could never be elected and look what happened to the country when he did. Trump is a fascist demagogue. The hate mail I got after my last Trump post put me in fear because I dared to say the emperors clothes were white robes and red armbands. For may Latina daughter, I’m not going to assume that Trump and his rabid, fact-hating minions are going away. I think we are in for a big fight for the brain of America.
Watching the Wheels 
Shades of 1930s Germany? I think so.
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Yeah. And liberals are the ones most likely to play the role of the nazis.
You speak tolerance out if one side of your mouth, but you call racist anyone wjo disagrees with you.
The only people less tolerant than liberals are Islamic fundamentalists and communists
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You chose an appropriate name for yourself.
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No I’m pretty sure he’s just calling the racist people racist
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To be entirely fair to our Nazi friend over here, liberals *did* usher in NSDAP after defeating them in the polls. Liberals resort to fascism when their half-baked bank-coddling schemes fail to produce a liveable society, because fascism is the substitution of futurist aesthetics for politics. Historically and arguably today, the only consistently antifascist groups in politics are leftist (socialists, communists, anarchists, etc), while liberals who don’t convert to fascism wholesale often exploit it to position themselves as “free speech” advocates. Hitler is right to count the liberals as his comrades.
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Liberal and progressives get caught up in personality and identity politics.
The fact that you care what my name is proves this. You don’t care about what I say. You care about how you can make me look bad without addressing what I say.
That’s how progressive totalitarianism is working now. And it’s running rampant.
Thanks for illustrating my point.
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Go fuck yourself Hitler!!!! I always wanted to say that, thanks! Seriously though, if these are your opinions I volunteer to beat you senseless, you quasi-informed faux-intellectual racist prick.
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This is so true and so frightening. “Fighting for the brain of America”. I sometimes wonder if there is one..
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Nope. You’re on the anti-intellectual side of this issue.
You see racism any time someone states facts about illegal immigration.
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Ok, I’ll play this game, please point to the facts of illegal immigration. Donald Trump isn’t giving any so maybe you can help out.
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Umm, many of them are violent criminals. Note, Trump didn’t say all.
And immigration is as important as he portrays. You can’t have open borders and a welfare state. But I’m not sure if you follow.
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The slow march toward anti-intellectualism that we’ve been living through is taking real effect. It feels like that movement, which began decades ago, is finally having the impact that it was destined (designed?) to.
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This opinion piece by a self-proclaimed expert is the best evidence of the accuracy of your statement.
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So, in short, you have no facts to work with, then.
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Do you? Does this author, the self-proclaimed expert on hate?
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I enjoyed both of the Trump posts. But you did get one thing wrong: “Um, the President of the United States doesn’t hire anybody, Donnie.”
The President appoints and delegates to MANY people. It is tantamount to hiring. And picking the right people is arguably one of the most important parts of the job.
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But those appointments have to be approved by Congress, which is very different than him hiring Meat Loaf.
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presidents get around the confirmation process by appointing czars, who need no congressional approval.
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Well reasoned and well written. Thank you for both of these posts.
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Thank you for this series of posts. Your courage, not only in writing these, but in your life’s work, is inspiring. I wish you would add to this series, as you seem to be able to articulate these things, an important aspect of this mentality and strategy… the old “I know you are, but what am I??” It can be seen even here in these comments. “I’m not a racist! Calling me a racist is racist!” It’s the first line of defense against cognitive dissonance for Trump’s supporters, and I think he fuels this.
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This is great. But one suggestion – can we start calling his followers “Trumplets”? Thanks.
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Reblogged this on wiseoldsnail.
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I am not sure why enforcing, or wanting to enforce, existing laws, makes someone hateful or racist. Mexicans are not the only people coming across our borders. and the context of trump saying china and mexico are killing us was in an economic sense. and he’s right.
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No, he’s wrong.
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I respect your efforts. I hope your fears about Trump are unfounded. I still am banking hope in the fact that I believe Trump is unelectable in a general election, but I could be wrong there. I’d really hate to be wrong, but I admit that I could be. At any rate, Trump has to win the GOP nomination and he has that battle to fight before I have to be really afraid, but I really appreciate the posts and the work you’ve done.
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Perhaps or perhaps not that u are aware by now … most illegal immigrants are from Central America, not Mexicians. More criminals coming to US from there than Mexico?? Any future stats posted will be much appreciated.
Btw, ur homework research is on spot! Thank u for ur endless hours of driving to show up at nazi / kKk rallies.
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Thanks for your informative and excellent post. I’m a bit conflicted. I’m around 90% opposed to all things conservative. I firmly believe in women’s right to choice, in public healthcare, and marijuana legalization. However, on the immigration issue, my only real worry is that if too many foreigners keep arriving in the United States, and do not assimilate into American culture (by that I mean, speaking English, adopting American ideals of freedom/democracy, etc), then will that have an effect on our country as a whole? I would like my children to grow up with the same quality and standard of living that I had when I was growing up. Will the new incoming immigrants to this country uphold the ideals that this country was founded on? Or will this country lower its standard of living to be closer to that of the source countries where the immigrants are coming from. For example, will the increased population have a strain on our resources? will English no longer be the official language of this country? I have invested my entire life into education, and getting a law degree, if English is no longer used in this country, I would essentially become unemployable. I guess, I’m used to the status quo, and I’m wondering how the new demographics of this nation will affect our day to day life. I really hope there is no underlying bigotry in my post, but these are some worries that I legitimately have, and I wonder what you take is?
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Thanks! This corn has always had influxes of non-English speaking immigrants. When my great-grandfather came, he didn’t speak any English. There are still large parts of Cleveland, Ohio, where I was born, where Czech is still the main language. Latinos will assimilate to the dominate culture. like everybody else. And I hope their values affect the rest of us since they have higher work ethics and lower crime rates. Each wave makes America stronger.
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I work with Latino groups and I have found that by the second generation, language is no longer an issue. I am fully bilingual, but my kids are most comfortable speaking English. This happens in every single household I have visited. There will be an exchange of artifacts, for example, salsa being as popular as ketchup, these are all amalgamated into our American reality, just like spaghetti and meatballs has, and generally enrich our culture.
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Absolutely right. The research backs that up. What are these people worried about?
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Randy-I want to thank you for allowing my posts on your site and not censoring. As known, I have been posting here now since November 2015, when there’s something for me to comment on. Randy, on forums.hannity.com, they deleted my topic which I created on Jan. 3, 2016 regarding Operation Barbarossa-accusing me of Nazi Propaganda. Honest history discussion is discussing,, not censoring becauser 1 sees something different or has doubts. I do not believe it’s Nazi propaganda to say it’s possible Hitler wanted ethnic cleaning of Jews only while his henchmen Otto Adolf Eichmann, Heinrich Lutipold Himmler, etc. did extermination. Fact again is that only Hitler knew his motives. People on that site accused me and reviser Paul G. Grubach of being Nazi apologists when I’m not German and when Paul G. Grubach is mostly Slav with little German and Paul G. Grubach’s dad was a WW2 Marine who lost toe fighting against the Japanese (Nazi Germany’s wartime ally) during Bougainville Battle.
Fact about Holocaust is that it has become a faith for some Jews and my post got censored when I said there among other things that Jewish groups like Wiesenthal Center and US Holocaust Museum talk too much about Holocaust-OK their job is to discuss that. Paul G. Grubach believes Jewish groups still hate Germans because of Holocaust and truth is Jewish groups like Wiesenthal Center and the US Holocaust Museum want Germans to have Passover Syndrome where post war Germans are supposed to be guilty for Holocaust. Germans like Niklas Frank (Hans Michael Frank’s son) http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/17/forgiving-my-nazi-father-a-horrific-past-made-present.html and Rainer Hoess (Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Hoess’s grandson) http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-grandson-of-auschwitz-boss-is-trying-to-remake-family-name-1422243182 both have Passover Syndrome. Here’s another German the grandniece of Hermann Wilhelm Goering who has Passover Syndrome http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1244754/Hermann-Goerings-great-niece-tells-Hitlers-Children-I-sterilised-I-pass-blood-monster.html
Even if a German has Passover Syndrome, there are Jews who will hate them no matter what. Must also say that Jews were Holocaust victims, in former USSR it was Stalin’s Communist henchmen & henchwomen who committed Soviet Holocaust who took more lives and while many of Stalin’s henchmen & henchwomen were not Jewish, some of Stalin’s henchmen & henchwomen were Jewish but not the same guilt trip. Rest of what I say here is copy/paste or copy&paste but relevant to topic.
Didn’t see Inglorious Basterds but don’t expect Q.J. Tarantino to do a movie on this history. http://davidduke.com/the-greatest-ma…ish-columnist/ Don’t always share David E. Duke’s views but he is right on this 1. Here’s a link to a historian who evaluates orthodox view on Operation Barbarossa that Stalin had no plans to attack Germany and Viktor Suvorov’s reviser view that Stalin did have plans to attack Germany here http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/1278/did-stalin-plan-to-attack-hitler-in-1941-the-historiographical-controversy-surrounding-the-origins-of-the-nazi-soviet-war
Adolf Hitler was selfish and greedy but he was honest about that. Samurais were worse than Nazis with Bataan Death March, Nanking, etc. Most Japanese people are fine but with WW2 on Axis side, the Samurais were scariest and Soviets were scarier than Samurais. Dictators like Hitler think they’re good not bad and Hitler did do things which made Germany advanced for it’s time after being leader in 1933. Germany and Austria (after 1938) anschluss did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for it’s time so yes, even dictators can have advance ideas. Nazis did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for time such as Hitler signed law to protect the eagle (Eagle on Swastika is Nazi symbol) and Hitler signed laws which created rules on hunting and Hitler signed laws on fastest way to kill crustaceans.
It’s possible Hitler did not know about gas chambers. Hitler rejected nerve gases which are worse than Zykon B (a rat killer). Himmler forbade all discussions before Hitler of Jews being killed. It’s odd that Hitler would reject deadlier nerve gases (though Prof. RJ Evans in his book 3d Reich @ War talks of experimental killings by nerve gas in camps) while approving gas vans. Yes, Hitler was wounded by mustard gas during WW1. But that doesn’t prove why he rejected nerve gas.
I do not find credible idea he rejected nerve gas because allies would react with same. Both Axis and Allies bombed cities killing many to try to get other side to surrender. What you have said so far is not understandable and I created topic mainly to discuss history. I don’t care if you call me a Nazi, but @least discuss history to rebut what I write, but don’t think you’re honest because you have not given any recorded history. It’s possible Hitler did not know about genocide as leaders don’t usually know everything. He wanted ethniccleaning which there’s no doubt and yes, the Holocaust happened under his leadership. But only Hitler knew his motive because wartime documents give a different idea from what after the war Nuremberg, Eichmann and with those 2, they were going to say what they were to try to save themselves such as following orders.
most people killed by the Nazis were NOT Jewish-they were Slavs such as Russians, Poles, Czechs. Read & heard descendants of Holocaust victims talk of how they lost an aunt, uncle, cousin, etc. during Holocaust or Shoah. Many non-Jewish Slavs also had relatives killed by Nazis during Holocaust in the death camps. These people imply their relatives killed were innocents. Yes, there were kids, school teachers, housewives, etc. killed by Nazis in shootings , gassings, etc. Some of the people who were killed in Nazi deaths camps were Communists & Communism has killed more than Nazism, so you can find cases where a future Stalin, Lenin, Kim Il Sung, Mao or other Commie was killed by Nazis in concentration camps. Not all the millions killed by the Nazis were nice people.
history reviser Paul G Grubach. He does not believe Adolf Hitler knew of extermination program but only wanted ethnic cleaning. I don’t think Paul Grubach is a neo-Nazi as his dad was a WW2 Marine who lost toe fighting against the Japanese (Nazi Germany’s ally) during Bougainville Battle. When it comes to axis, the Samurais were scarier than Nazis.
Paul G. Grubach should not be censored just because he sees differently. Here’s what Paul G.Grubach said ‘Three days after the Wannsee Conference, January 23, 1942, Hitler told his associates: The Jew must clear out of Europe. Otherwise no understanding will be possible between Europeans restrict myself to telling them they must go away. If they break their pipes on the journey, I can’t do anything about it. But if they refuse to go voluntarily, I see no other solution but extermination. Hitler added: A good three or four hundred years will go by before the Jews set foot again in Europe. They return first of all as commercial travelers, then gradually they become emboldened to settle here the better to exploit
Paul G. Grubach said ‘Hitlers meaning in these documents is clear. He had no plans to physically exterminate all of the Jews, as he realized they would still be around hundreds of years from now. Yet, he clearly realized the brutality of his plans to rid Europe of the Jews; many would die as a result of his policies, and many of the ones that did not leave voluntarily would be shot or would die of disease or starvation. …. evil policy indeed, but it is not the same as a policy to exterminate all Jews in gas chambers, to make them disappear from the face of the earth.’
Prof. RJ Evans and Ian Kershaw think the extermination policy was in codes but reviser Paul Grubach thinks intent was ethnic cleaning but not extermination though Himmler, Eichmann, Heydrich and others believed that to be extermination. Paul Grubach believes war time documents during war on Nazi Germany’s policy on Jews is more reliable than after the war testimony by Adolf Eichmann because Eichmann was going to say what he wanted to save himself. Same with Nuremberg trials, they were going to say what they could to save themselves.
I know Adolf Hitler wanted to ethnically clean Europe of Jews and I only talk of what I know. I’m not sure about the codes. Prof. RJ Evans (3d Reich @ War)& Ian Kershaw (Hubris & Nemesis) believe Hitler knew of extermination with reports given in codes such as evacuation, rather than extermination & that Hitler talked in codes when he knew plans changed to extermination. Is it possible Himmler, Eichmann, Heydrich & others did extermination w/o Hitlers knowledge Know people will differ but possible Adolf Hitler wanted to get rid of Jews, his henchmen believed it meant extermination & they did extermination when Hitler wanted ethniccleaning not extermination. Ian Kershaw & Prof. RJ Evans are good historians. Just saying my view is that possible Hitler wanted ethniccleaning only but his henchmen did extermination.
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The greatest threat to your children’s future are the libertarians like Rand Paul and the Koch funded Republican who want to destroy public education.
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sorry for typos…was typing quickly and off the cuff
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Seen from afar, American politics are only getting weirder and scarier by the day ! It seems unconceivable that this nation, and all of its citizenry, is not totally mobilized in order to urgently begin to transform its present economic system of “financial imperialism based on monopolistic capitalism”, into a more ” economically fair and humane” and “ecologically sustainable” economic system . The model of endless, ever-increasing mass consumption has driven America into unsustainable levels of debt, and woven a perilous entangled chain between most nations of the world : the “market” and the globalist “new world order” will be the end of all !
The american militaro-industrial complex appears totally out of control, with warmongers within the american politican parties and “political analysts and elites” seemingly always on the warpath, seeding death and destruction from one end of the globe to the other, all in the name of “freedom and democracy”.
American Culture, which grew to dominate the globe mainly through the popularity of the new medium of cinematography, television and popular music, and now through the universal appeal of the internet, has mostly debased itself to appeal to the lowest common denomination: pornography and sexual perversions, anti-intellectualism and illiteracy. Pseudo- religious fervor seems to have taken over the American polity, with Christian radical fundamentalism nearly as extremist as muslim radical fundamentalism in the middle east. Americans seem to have rejected the notion of the separation of State and Religion !
Ever since the election of a colored man to the presidential function, the flames of racism have taken a new hold over America, and now appears on the brink of being totally out of control, under the guise of “freedom of speech”: hate is spewing forth from all corners of America, and the endless spectacle of armed murders, both by citizens and the police, is revolting and sickening.l
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Really there is no excuse now for a current game not to capture the look and
feel of concept art.
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trump is a narcissistic megalomaniac…. somewhat redundant, but it covers most. (add entitled)
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While I’m not a fan of D.J. Trump as he is an arrogant billionaire, I wouldn’t compare him to Nazis. Do have thoughts on Hitler.
Prof. RJ Evans & Sir Ian Kershaw are excellent historians & I’ve read 3d Reich @ War (Prof. RJ Evans), Hubris (Prof. Kershaw) & Nemesis (Prof. Ian Kershaw). Prof. RJ Evans & Ian Kershaw are both right that Adolf Hitler with Slavs (Poles, Czechs, Russians, etc.) wanted lebensraum such as he took Czechoslovakia by war declaration threat after taking Sudetenland by Munich Agreement which Czechs hated. Hitler wanted Germans to be Europe’s masters with Slavs having limited education and doing things for German’s interests. Nazi invasion of Poland, Yugoslavia, Operation Barbarossa was to do things for German interests. Hitler often treated his generals strategies with contempt & interfered in military decisions while Stalin left military planning to his commanders & generals.
Professor Ian Kershaw said if Hitler had died in 1938 (before the Holocaust) instead of 1945 (after millions were killed), he would have gone down as a great leader in German history. Germany and later Austria (after 1938) anschluss were advanced in many ways during Hitler’s time be it automotive science (V.W. Beetle came out in 1938), veterinary science and other things. Nazi propaganda would show films of Hitler with children & dogs. Nazis did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for it’s time such as Hitler signed law to protect the eagle (Eagle on Swastika is Nazi symbol) and Hitler signed laws which created rules on hunting and Hitler signed laws on fastest way to kill crustaceans. In the end Hitler, his mistress Eva Braun and their dog Blondi all committed suicide.
Adolf Hitler did say that he wanted Endlossung or Final Solution to get rid of Jews. Adolf Hitler didn’t care if Jews died in concentration camps in that he said that there would not be enough food & many would die. It’s possible though that he wanted ethniccleaning when he said Final Solution but not extermination while his henchmen believed Final Solution to mean extermination. Adolf Hitler made no secret about wanting lebensraum & Hitler had authorized T4, Commissar Order, etc., that Himmler, Heydrich, etc. believed there was no need to give extermination order with regard to Jews.
Only Adolf Hitler knew, but it’s possible with Final Solution, Adolf Hitler wanted ethniccleaning but not extermination. Paul G. Grubach mentioned in 2002 that Hitler sometimes intervened in decisions as it related to Jews such as in 1942 (during extermination program), Hitler signed an order to send 60,000 Jews to Palestine. Yes, Paul G. Grubach is a reviser who doesn’t believe Adolf Hitler knew of extermination program, but I don’t think Paul Grubach is a Nazi as he is mostly Polish (with some German) & Paul G. Grubach’s dad was a WW2 Marine who lost a toe fighting against the Imperial Japanese (Nazi Germany’s ally) during the Battle of Bouganville. More non-Jewish Slavs were killed by Nazis during WW2.
Professors RJ Evans & Ian Kershaw are right that Adolf Hitler allowed T4 Mercy Killing extermination where people had their handicapped kids (incl. babies) & relatives killed. They have also talked of other execution orders that Adolf Hitler did such as Comissar Order & Hitler’s 1942 order to exterminate males 14 & older in Stalingrad & Leningrad battles. Prof. RJ Evans (3d Reich @ War)& Ian Kershaw (Hubris & Nemesis) believe Hitler knew of extermination with reports given in codes such as evacuation, rather than extermination & that Hitler talked in codes when he knew plans changed to extermination. Is it possible Himmler, Eichmann, Heydrich & others did extermination w/o Hitler’s knowledge? Know people will differ but it’s possible Adolf Hitler wanted to get rid of Jews, his henchmen believed it meant extermination & they did extermination when Hitler wanted ethniccleaning not extermination. Ian Kershaw & Prof. RJ Evans are good historians. Just saying my view is that it’s possible Hitler wanted ethniccleaning only but his henchmen did extermination.
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Once again, Donald J. Trump is an arrogant billionaire but couldn’t compare him to Fascist Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini. With crime, there must be = punishment based on facts & circumstances of each case regardless of ethnicity or sex. If an Americn Indian, Asian or Black man commits a crime, then he (or if it’s a woman she) must get = punishment with no discrimination & with no cruel & unusual punishment. Whites must be treated fairly as well. All ethnic groups must be treated fairly. Have other thoughts on Nazis because most people killed by the Nazis were NOT Jewish-they were Slavs such as Russians, Poles, Czechs.
Sir Ian Kershaw is the best Hitler historian with Hubris (1889-1936) & Nemesis (1936-1945). Adolf Hitler with Slavs (Poles, Czechs, Russians, etc.) wanted lebensraum such as he took Czechoslovakia by war declaration threat after taking Sudetenland by Munich Agreement which Czechs hated. Hitler wanted Germans to be Europe’s masters with Slavs having limited education and doing things for German’s interests. Nazi invasion of Poland, Yugoslavia, Operation Barbarossa was to do things for German interests. Hitler often treated his generals strategies with contempt & interfered in military decisions while Stalin left military planning to his commanders & generals.
Read & heard descendants of Holocaust victims talk of how they lost an aunt, uncle, cousin, etc. during Holocaust or Shoah. Many non-Jewish Slavs also had relatives killed by Nazis during Holocaust in the death camps. These people imply their relatives killed were innocents. Yes, there were kids, school teachers, housewives, etc. killed by Nazis in shootings , gassings, etc. Some of the people who were killed in Nazi deaths camps were Communists & Communism has killed more than Nazism, so you can find cases where a future Stalin, Lenin, Kim Il Sung, Mao or other Commie was killed by Nazis in concentration camps. Not all the millions killed by the Nazis were nice people.
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Here’s what I will say: I agree with your assertions that Donald Trump is a hate-monger and the new face of White Supremacy. That having been said, the flaw with written pieces like these is: you claim the far-right just wants to see the world in black and white, but that is also the case with most liberals, too. We see the far-right as all bad, and I will say, generally, they are not good. The problem is, conspiracies do exist, and if you think that the major contenders on the left are looking out for the best interests of the general population, or have more of a genuine concern for human rights than the far right, then you are sorely mistaken. If you go to Iraq or Afghanistan, do you really think natives of those countries view us as any better than we view the Nazis? Our military is essentially killing people indiscriminately there… Why do you think that is? During WWII, the American people underwent “blackouts” to hide their lights at night, for fear of being bombed. We don’t live that way today. We’re supposedly “in a war” with Iraq and Afghanistan – but where are their retaliations to our fighting overseas? We are not at war with them; our government is indulging in visions of imperialistic grandeur, and nothing more. And even our leftist government has made no effort to – at the very least – even express contempt for the damage we’ve done overseas.
Money is what makes the world go ’round, “as they say,” and certainly OUR political system is not the exception to that. The left just plays a better game when it comes to winning over the affections of those who are more…intellectually adept, if you will. Corporations can donate anonymously to political groups, parties, and politicians with virtually no cap. How one can know this, and know even just an inkling about something like, say, the TPP, and still think that somehow “Liberal” politicians pose less of a threat to the well-being of American citizens than someone like Donald Trump is completely laughable to me.
The Right and Left are both sides of a double-edged sword. Governments never did, and likely never will, exist to protect the human rights of its citizens. They evolve out of a need for wealthier classes to protect their assets (and power), and when you’re rich enough, some of your assets are actual humans. For example, in the case of the gentry of England, nobility had land bestowed upon them by the King, and those nobles needed income from the land (in order to maintain and protect their assets). They received income by renting the land to farmers, who paid taxes (and rent), and, in many cases, shared part of the profit from their crop yields to the landowners. In return, taxpayers received security and the relative stability that resulted in living under the ruling class – which meant they didn’t have to fear being randomly pillaged by neighbors. The taxpayers traded subservience for safety. In the case of a democratic republic, which is in essence, not much different, the best case scenario would be that the common citizens are kept happy enough (and feel powerful enough) to maintain a lack of interest in taking part in a revolution against the “upper class.” Not only that, but it allows the ruling class to spread and deflect attention away from their true power; as opposed to, say, in a monarchy or dictatorship, in which case, when the commoners are suffering from poverty, starvation, and deteriorating quality of life, they have a central focus upon which to thrust their anger, resentment, and violence.
These people who are acting out violently in our country now are doing so because they’re unhappy about things which any person would find unsettling: poverty, unemployment, lack of hope, and/or a sense of disenfranchisement. But they are taking out their aggression on people who are undeserving of such treatment because those aggressors have their attention directed toward “individual perpetrators” by our corporate government, and corporate-owned media. It’s not just people on the far right who are guilty of this; those on the left who so strongly criticize the far right are just as susceptible to incite hatred and, eventually, violence as the right-wing hatemongers. And not only that, while all of us fight amongst ourselves, we are all guilty of allowing the corporations of this world to influence our government policy to the point where we will all be bemoaning the misery of our future and pining for the “good ol’ days” in just a few years. Social issues are indeed important, but it’s worth noting who is fueling all of the fires with which we are confronted today: The Financial Elite. If you don’t believe that, then you are just as bad as those who indulge in the right-wing delusions that Trump feeds his followers: like the blind leading the blind.
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Meant to say: A democratic republic, in *practice*, is not much different***
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Running out of things so hope a new topic. It’s Operation Barbarossa. I have read 3rd Reich @ War by Professor RJ Evans, Hubris and Nemesis by Ian Kershaw. Have also read the book Stalin’s War of Extermination (2002) by history reviser Joachim Hoffman. Adolf Hitler was a dictator but he is interesting. So much we can talk about, but let’s talk Operation Barbarossa (OB). Let’s also talk Commissar Order which Wilhelm Gustav Johann Keitel or Wilhelm Keitel authorized and was it justified.
Before OB, Adolf Hitler’s interest was living room or which in German is called lebensraum. He wanted Germans to be Europe’s lords with Slavs such as Poles, Czechs, etc. to have limited education and to do things for Germany’s interests. Adolf Hitler wanted to ethnically clean Europe of Jews, but want to avoid Holocaust. Hitler took Austria by 1938 anschluss, first took Sudetenland by Munich Agreement and then in 1938, he took all of Czechoslovakia by war declaration threat. Of course in Sept. 1939, there’s German invasion of Poland which by 1945 had millions killed in war, German, Italian and Japanese cities bombed in war. Adolf Hitler’s only true friend was Mussolini. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were untrustworthy allies. Other of Hitler’s allies were Hungary (Horthy), Rumania (Ion Antonescsu), Finland (Mannerheim). Adolf Hitler along with Germans and Italians also highly regarded Scandinavians.
But to Operation Barbarossa. It started on June 1941 and was poorly strategized as while Germans had some wonder weapons such as Tiger Tanks (which were only a few), they did not have enough men, weapons and resources to win war. Advanced German planes such as ME262 were too few. More died building the German rockets in Nordhausen and Dora than were killed by them. Soviets had advanced weapons T34 tanks and they had better military strategies. Stalin left his planning to his commanders while Hitler did not trust his commanders and would meddle. Red Army had far more soldiers than Germans did. Germans did have 1 million Ukrainians, Latvians, Estonians, Russians and Lithuanians who fought on side of Wehrmacht against Red Army during Operation Barbarossa.
But was Stalin going to strike first ? Joachim Hoffman says Stalin had a plot to attack Germany and other nations from the East-the former USSR did fight against Finland in 1939-40. Of course, Soviet Union had attacked Poland in late September 1939. Viktor Suvorov is another historian who believes Stalin had plot to attack Germany and other European nations to spread Communism. Former USSR did take ½ of Europe including more than ½ of Germany east of Elbe River with East Berlin and Soviet zone.
While Adolf Hitler did have lebensraum interest, does seem that incidentally Hitler was defending territory when Operation Barbarossa took place in that Stalin had his own interests. Viktor Suvorov (if any you read his book, then please comment as don’t think it’s in US) has said that declassified documents found since late 1990s (since perestroika ended) show that Stalin had plans to attack other nations in Europe to spread Communism starting with Germany so seems that Hitler incidentally was defending territory. Viktor Suvorov has looked @ Soviet military records and he thinks military movements was for attack.
Related to Operation Barbarossa is the Keitel Commissar Order which was the execution of Soviet Commissars. Was the Commissar Order justified ? As it is a war, the Soviet Red Army Commissars were Communists and some of them did Soviet Holodomor in 1930s, where many Ukrainians, Latvians and others killed in Ukrainian Famine. Soviet Red Army Commissars often killed people who were against Communism and many Soviet citizens killed, starved and worked to deaths in Gulags such as Dubno, Krasnogorsk, or forced to work in Kolyma which is north of Arctic Circle. Red Army Commissars also forced people to work in building the TransSiberian Railways. As Soviet Red Army Commissars were thugs who killed many people including kids, then was the Keitel Commissar Order justified ?
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Here’s a link to a historian who evaluates orthodox view on Operation Barbarossa that Stalin had no plans to attack Germany and Viktor Suvorov’s reviser view that Stalin did have plans to attack Germany here http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/1278/did-stalin-plan-to-attack-hitler-in-1941-the-historiographical-controversy-surrounding-the-origins-of-the-nazi-soviet-war
Adolf Hitler was selfish and greedy but he was honest about that. Samurais were worse than Nazis with Bataan Death March, Nanking, etc. Most Japanese people are fine but with WW2 on Axis side, the Samurais were scariest and Soviets were scarier than Samurais. Dictators like Hitler think they’re good not bad and Hitler did do things which made Germany advanced for it’s time after being leader in 1933. Germany and Austria (after 1938) anschluss did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for it’s time so yes, even dictators can have advance ideas. Nazis did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for time such as Hitler signed law to protect the eagle (Eagle on Swastika is Nazi symbol) and Hitler signed laws which created rules on hunting and Hitler signed laws on fastest way to kill crustaceans.
It’s possible Hitler did not know about gas chambers. Hitler rejected nerve gases which are worse than Zykon B (a rat killer). Himmler forbade all discussions before Hitler of Jews being killed. It’s odd that Hitler would reject deadlier nerve gases (though Prof. RJ Evans in his book 3d Reich @ War talks of experimental killings by nerve gas in camps) while approving gas vans. Yes, Hitler was wounded by mustard gas during WW1. But that doesn’t prove why he rejected nerve gas.
I do not find credible idea he rejected nerve gas because allies would react with same. Both Axis and Allies bombed cities killing many to try to get other side to surrender. What you have said so far is not understandable and I created topic mainly to discuss history. I don’t care if you call me a Nazi, but @least discuss history to rebut what I write, but don’t think you’re honest because you have not given any recorded history. It’s possible Hitler did not know about genocide as leaders don’t usually know everything. He wanted ethniccleaning which there’s no doubt and yes, the Holocaust happened under his leadership. But only Hitler knew his motive because wartime documents give a different idea from what after the war Nuremberg, Eichmann and with those 2, they were going to say what they were to try to save themselves such as following orders.
most people killed by the Nazis were NOT Jewish-they were Slavs such as Russians, Poles, Czechs. Read & heard descendants of Holocaust victims talk of how they lost an aunt, uncle, cousin, etc. during Holocaust or Shoah. Many non-Jewish Slavs also had relatives killed by Nazis during Holocaust in the death camps. These people imply their relatives killed were innocents. Yes, there were kids, school teachers, housewives, etc. killed by Nazis in shootings , gassings, etc. Some of the people who were killed in Nazi deaths camps were Communists & Communism has killed more than Nazism, so you can find cases where a future Stalin, Lenin, Kim Il Sung, Mao or other Commie was killed by Nazis in concentration camps. Not all the millions killed by the Nazis were nice people.
history reviser Paul G Grubach. He does not believe Adolf Hitler knew of extermination program but only wanted ethnic cleaning. I don’t think Paul Grubach is a neo-Nazi as his dad was a WW2 Marine who lost toe fighting against the Japanese (Nazi Germany’s ally) during Bougainville Battle. When it comes to axis, the Samurais were scarier than Nazis.
Paul G. Grubach should not be censored just because he sees differently. Here’s what Paul G.Grubach said ‘Three days after the Wannsee Conference, January 23, 1942, Hitler told his associates: The Jew must clear out of Europe. Otherwise no understanding will be possible between Europeans restrict myself to telling them they must go away. If they break their pipes on the journey, I can’t do anything about it. But if they refuse to go voluntarily, I see no other solution but extermination. Hitler added: A good three or four hundred years will go by before the Jews set foot again in Europe. They return first of all as commercial travelers, then gradually they become emboldened to settle here the better to exploit
Paul G. Grubach said ‘Hitlers meaning in these documents is clear. He had no plans to physically exterminate all of the Jews, as he realized they would still be around hundreds of years from now. Yet, he clearly realized the brutality of his plans to rid Europe of the Jews; many would die as a result of his policies, and many of the ones that did not leave voluntarily would be shot or would die of disease or starvation. …. evil policy indeed, but it is not the same as a policy to exterminate all Jews in gas chambers, to make them disappear from the face of the earth.’
Prof. RJ Evans and Ian Kershaw think the extermination policy was in codes but reviser Paul Grubach thinks intent was ethnic cleaning but not extermination though Himmler, Eichmann, Heydrich and others believed that to be extermination. Paul Grubach believes war time documents during war on Nazi Germany’s policy on Jews is more reliable than after the war testimony by Adolf Eichmann because Eichmann was going to say what he wanted to save himself. Same with Nuremberg trials, they were going to say what they could to save themselves.
I know Adolf Hitler wanted to ethnically clean Europe of Jews and I only talk of what I know. I’m not sure about the codes. Prof. RJ Evans (3d Reich @ War)& Ian Kershaw (Hubris & Nemesis) believe Hitler knew of extermination with reports given in codes such as evacuation, rather than extermination & that Hitler talked in codes when he knew plans changed to extermination. Is it possible Himmler, Eichmann, Heydrich & others did extermination w/o Hitlers knowledge Know people will differ but possible Adolf Hitler wanted to get rid of Jews, his henchmen believed it meant extermination & they did extermination when Hitler wanted ethniccleaning not extermination. Ian Kershaw & Prof. RJ Evans are good historians. Just saying my view is that possible Hitler wanted ethniccleaning only but his henchmen did extermination.
Adolf Hitler did say that he wanted Endlossung or Final Solution to get rid of Jews. Adolf Hitler didn’t care if Jews died in concentration camps in that he said that there would not be enough food & many would die. Its possible though that he wanted ethniccleaning when he said Final Solution but not extermination while his henchmen believed Final Solution to mean extermination. Adolf Hitler made no secret about lebensraum & Hitler had authorized T4, Commissar Order, etc., that Himmler, Heydrich, etc. believed there was no need to give extermination order with regard to Jews.
Professors RJ Evans & Ian Kershaw are right that Adolf Hitler allowed T4 Mercy Killing extermination where people had their handicapped kids (incl. babies) & relatives killed. They have also talked of other execution orders that Adolf Hitler did such as Comissar Order & Hitler 1942 order to exterminate males 14 & older in Stalingrad & Leningrad battles.
Nazis were bad people, but the Commisar Order would be described as bad people killing other bad people. Soviet guerrillas were sometimes thugs and as bad as the Nazis. Some of the Soviet partisans helped Stalin commit his 1930s Holocaust called the Holodomor, where millions of Ukrainians, Latvians, Estonians & others were sent to GULag such as Krasnogorsk, Kolyma, Dubno or Workuta (North of Arctic Circle) to be starved and worked to death, shot and killed, tortured to death. In some cases the Nazis did kill bad people-Commissar Order where the Germans executed Stalin�s Red Army officers and partisans and again those who were executed by the Commissar Order were Communists who had taken part in Stalin Holodomor.
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First to Randy-I want to thank you for allowing my posts on your site and not censoring. As known, I have been posting here now since November 2015, when there’s something for me to comment on. Randy, on forums.hannity.com, they deleted my topic which I created on Jan. 3, 2016 regarding Operation Barbarossa-accusing me of Nazi Propaganda. Honest history discussion is discussing,, not censoring becauser 1 sees something different or has doubts. I do not believe it’s Nazi propaganda to say it’s possible Hitler wanted ethnic cleaning of Jews only while his henchmen Otto Adolf Eichmann, Heinrich Lutipold Himmler, etc. did extermination. Fact again is that only Hitler knew his motives. People on that site accused me and reviser Paul G. Grubach of being Nazi apologists when I’m not German and when Paul G. Grubach is mostly Slav with little German and Paul G. Grubach’s dad was a WW2 Marine who lost toe fighting against the Japanese (Nazi Germany’s wartime ally) during Bougainville Battle.
Fact about Holocaust is that it has become a faith for some Jews and my post got censored when I said there among other things that Jewish groups like Wiesenthal Center and US Holocaust Museum talk too much about Holocaust-OK their job is to discuss that. Paul G. Grubach believes Jewish groups still hate Germans because of Holocaust and truth is Jewish groups like Wiesenthal Center and the US Holocaust Museum want Germans to have Passover Syndrome where post war Germans are supposed to be guilty for Holocaust. Germans like Niklas Frank (Hans Michael Frank’s son) http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/17/forgiving-my-nazi-father-a-horrific-past-made-present.html and Rainer Hoess (Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Hoess’s grandson) http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-grandson-of-auschwitz-boss-is-trying-to-remake-family-name-1422243182 both have Passover Syndrome. Here’s another German the grandniece of Hermann Wilhelm Goering who has Passover Syndrome http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1244754/Hermann-Goerings-great-niece-tells-Hitlers-Children-I-sterilised-I-pass-blood-monster.html
Even if a German has Passover Syndrome, there are Jews who will hate them no matter what. Must also say that Jews were Holocaust victims, in former USSR it was Stalin’s Communist henchmen & henchwomen who committed Soviet Holocaust who took more lives and while many of Stalin’s henchmen & henchwomen were not Jewish, some of Stalin’s henchmen & henchwomen were Jewish but not the same guilt trip. Rest of what I say here is copy/paste or copy&paste but relevant to topic.
Didn’t see Inglorious Basterds but don’t expect Q.J. Tarantino to do a movie on this history. http://davidduke.com/the-greatest-ma…ish-columnist/ Don’t always share David E. Duke’s views but he is right on this 1. Here’s a link to a historian who evaluates orthodox view on Operation Barbarossa that Stalin had no plans to attack Germany and Viktor Suvorov’s reviser view that Stalin did have plans to attack Germany here http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/1278/did-stalin-plan-to-attack-hitler-in-1941-the-historiographical-controversy-surrounding-the-origins-of-the-nazi-soviet-war
Adolf Hitler was selfish and greedy but he was honest about that. Samurais were worse than Nazis with Bataan Death March, Nanking, etc. Most Japanese people are fine but with WW2 on Axis side, the Samurais were scariest and Soviets were scarier than Samurais. Dictators like Hitler think they’re good not bad and Hitler did do things which made Germany advanced for it’s time after being leader in 1933. Germany and Austria (after 1938) anschluss did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for it’s time so yes, even dictators can have advance ideas. Nazis did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for time such as Hitler signed law to protect the eagle (Eagle on Swastika is Nazi symbol) and Hitler signed laws which created rules on hunting and Hitler signed laws on fastest way to kill crustaceans.
It’s possible Hitler did not know about gas chambers. Hitler rejected nerve gases which are worse than Zykon B (a rat killer). Himmler forbade all discussions before Hitler of Jews being killed. It’s odd that Hitler would reject deadlier nerve gases (though Prof. RJ Evans in his book 3d Reich @ War talks of experimental killings by nerve gas in camps) while approving gas vans. Yes, Hitler was wounded by mustard gas during WW1. But that doesn’t prove why he rejected nerve gas.
I do not find credible idea he rejected nerve gas because allies would react with same. Both Axis and Allies bombed cities killing many to try to get other side to surrender. What you have said so far is not understandable and I created topic mainly to discuss history. I don’t care if you call me a Nazi, but @least discuss history to rebut what I write, but don’t think you’re honest because you have not given any recorded history. It’s possible Hitler did not know about genocide as leaders don’t usually know everything. He wanted ethniccleaning which there’s no doubt and yes, the Holocaust happened under his leadership. But only Hitler knew his motive because wartime documents give a different idea from what after the war Nuremberg, Eichmann and with those 2, they were going to say what they were to try to save themselves such as following orders.
most people killed by the Nazis were NOT Jewish-they were Slavs such as Russians, Poles, Czechs. Read & heard descendants of Holocaust victims talk of how they lost an aunt, uncle, cousin, etc. during Holocaust or Shoah. Many non-Jewish Slavs also had relatives killed by Nazis during Holocaust in the death camps. These people imply their relatives killed were innocents. Yes, there were kids, school teachers, housewives, etc. killed by Nazis in shootings , gassings, etc. Some of the people who were killed in Nazi deaths camps were Communists & Communism has killed more than Nazism, so you can find cases where a future Stalin, Lenin, Kim Il Sung, Mao or other Commie was killed by Nazis in concentration camps. Not all the millions killed by the Nazis were nice people.
history reviser Paul G Grubach. He does not believe Adolf Hitler knew of extermination program but only wanted ethnic cleaning. I don’t think Paul Grubach is a neo-Nazi as his dad was a WW2 Marine who lost toe fighting against the Japanese (Nazi Germany’s ally) during Bougainville Battle. When it comes to axis, the Samurais were scarier than Nazis.
Paul G. Grubach should not be censored just because he sees differently. Here’s what Paul G.Grubach said ‘Three days after the Wannsee Conference, January 23, 1942, Hitler told his associates: The Jew must clear out of Europe. Otherwise no understanding will be possible between Europeans restrict myself to telling them they must go away. If they break their pipes on the journey, I can’t do anything about it. But if they refuse to go voluntarily, I see no other solution but extermination. Hitler added: A good three or four hundred years will go by before the Jews set foot again in Europe. They return first of all as commercial travelers, then gradually they become emboldened to settle here the better to exploit
Paul G. Grubach said ‘Hitlers meaning in these documents is clear. He had no plans to physically exterminate all of the Jews, as he realized they would still be around hundreds of years from now. Yet, he clearly realized the brutality of his plans to rid Europe of the Jews; many would die as a result of his policies, and many of the ones that did not leave voluntarily would be shot or would die of disease or starvation. …. evil policy indeed, but it is not the same as a policy to exterminate all Jews in gas chambers, to make them disappear from the face of the earth.’
Prof. RJ Evans and Ian Kershaw think the extermination policy was in codes but reviser Paul Grubach thinks intent was ethnic cleaning but not extermination though Himmler, Eichmann, Heydrich and others believed that to be extermination. Paul Grubach believes war time documents during war on Nazi Germany’s policy on Jews is more reliable than after the war testimony by Adolf Eichmann because Eichmann was going to say what he wanted to save himself. Same with Nuremberg trials, they were going to say what they could to save themselves.
I know Adolf Hitler wanted to ethnically clean Europe of Jews and I only talk of what I know. I’m not sure about the codes. Prof. RJ Evans (3d Reich @ War)& Ian Kershaw (Hubris & Nemesis) believe Hitler knew of extermination with reports given in codes such as evacuation, rather than extermination & that Hitler talked in codes when he knew plans changed to extermination. Is it possible Himmler, Eichmann, Heydrich & others did extermination w/o Hitlers knowledge Know people will differ but possible Adolf Hitler wanted to get rid of Jews, his henchmen believed it meant extermination & they did extermination when Hitler wanted ethniccleaning not extermination. Ian Kershaw & Prof. RJ Evans are good historians. Just saying my view is that possible Hitler wanted ethniccleaning only but his henchmen did extermination.
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Randy-I want to thank you for allowing my posts on your site and not censoring. As known, I have been posting here now since November 2015, when there’s something for me to comment on. Randy, on forums.hannity.com, they deleted my topic which I created on Jan. 3, 2016 regarding Operation Barbarossa-accusing me of Nazi Propaganda. Honest history discussion is discussing,, not censoring becauser 1 sees something different or has doubts. I do not believe it’s Nazi propaganda to say it’s possible Hitler wanted ethnic cleaning of Jews only while his henchmen Otto Adolf Eichmann, Heinrich Lutipold Himmler, etc. did extermination. Fact again is that only Hitler knew his motives. People on that site accused me and reviser Paul G. Grubach of being Nazi apologists when I’m not German and when Paul G. Grubach is mostly Slav with little German and Paul G. Grubach’s dad was a WW2 Marine who lost toe fighting against the Japanese (Nazi Germany’s wartime ally) during Bougainville Battle.
Fact about Holocaust is that it has become a faith for some Jews and my post got censored when I said there among other things that Jewish groups like Wiesenthal Center and US Holocaust Museum talk too much about Holocaust-OK their job is to discuss that. Paul G. Grubach believes Jewish groups still hate Germans because of Holocaust and truth is Jewish groups like Wiesenthal Center and the US Holocaust Museum want Germans to have Passover Syndrome where post war Germans are supposed to be guilty for Holocaust. Germans like Niklas Frank (Hans Michael Frank’s son) http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/17/forgiving-my-nazi-father-a-horrific-past-made-present.html and Rainer Hoess (Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Hoess’s grandson) http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-grandson-of-auschwitz-boss-is-trying-to-remake-family-name-1422243182 both have Passover Syndrome. Here’s another German the grandniece of Hermann Wilhelm Goering who has Passover Syndrome http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1244754/Hermann-Goerings-great-niece-tells-Hitlers-Children-I-sterilised-I-pass-blood-monster.html
Even if a German has Passover Syndrome, there are Jews who will hate them no matter what. Must also say that Jews were Holocaust victims, in former USSR it was Stalin’s Communist henchmen & henchwomen who committed Soviet Holocaust who took more lives and while many of Stalin’s henchmen & henchwomen were not Jewish, some of Stalin’s henchmen & henchwomen were Jewish but not the same guilt trip. Rest of what I say here is copy/paste or copy&paste but relevant to topic.
Didn’t see Inglorious Basterds but don’t expect Q.J. Tarantino to do a movie on this history. http://davidduke.com/the-greatest-ma…ish-columnist/ Don’t always share David E. Duke’s views but he is right on this 1. Here’s a link to a historian who evaluates orthodox view on Operation Barbarossa that Stalin had no plans to attack Germany and Viktor Suvorov’s reviser view that Stalin did have plans to attack Germany here http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/1278/did-stalin-plan-to-attack-hitler-in-1941-the-historiographical-controversy-surrounding-the-origins-of-the-nazi-soviet-war
Adolf Hitler was selfish and greedy but he was honest about that. Samurais were worse than Nazis with Bataan Death March, Nanking, etc. Most Japanese people are fine but with WW2 on Axis side, the Samurais were scariest and Soviets were scarier than Samurais. Dictators like Hitler think they’re good not bad and Hitler did do things which made Germany advanced for it’s time after being leader in 1933. Germany and Austria (after 1938) anschluss did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for it’s time so yes, even dictators can have advance ideas. Nazis did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for time such as Hitler signed law to protect the eagle (Eagle on Swastika is Nazi symbol) and Hitler signed laws which created rules on hunting and Hitler signed laws on fastest way to kill crustaceans.
It’s possible Hitler did not know about gas chambers. Hitler rejected nerve gases which are worse than Zykon B (a rat killer). Himmler forbade all discussions before Hitler of Jews being killed. It’s odd that Hitler would reject deadlier nerve gases (though Prof. RJ Evans in his book 3d Reich @ War talks of experimental killings by nerve gas in camps) while approving gas vans. Yes, Hitler was wounded by mustard gas during WW1. But that doesn’t prove why he rejected nerve gas.
I do not find credible idea he rejected nerve gas because allies would react with same. Both Axis and Allies bombed cities killing many to try to get other side to surrender. What you have said so far is not understandable and I created topic mainly to discuss history. I don’t care if you call me a Nazi, but @least discuss history to rebut what I write, but don’t think you’re honest because you have not given any recorded history. It’s possible Hitler did not know about genocide as leaders don’t usually know everything. He wanted ethniccleaning which there’s no doubt and yes, the Holocaust happened under his leadership. But only Hitler knew his motive because wartime documents give a different idea from what after the war Nuremberg, Eichmann and with those 2, they were going to say what they were to try to save themselves such as following orders.
most people killed by the Nazis were NOT Jewish-they were Slavs such as Russians, Poles, Czechs. Read & heard descendants of Holocaust victims talk of how they lost an aunt, uncle, cousin, etc. during Holocaust or Shoah. Many non-Jewish Slavs also had relatives killed by Nazis during Holocaust in the death camps. These people imply their relatives killed were innocents. Yes, there were kids, school teachers, housewives, etc. killed by Nazis in shootings , gassings, etc. Some of the people who were killed in Nazi deaths camps were Communists & Communism has killed more than Nazism, so you can find cases where a future Stalin, Lenin, Kim Il Sung, Mao or other Commie was killed by Nazis in concentration camps. Not all the millions killed by the Nazis were nice people.
history reviser Paul G Grubach. He does not believe Adolf Hitler knew of extermination program but only wanted ethnic cleaning. I don’t think Paul Grubach is a neo-Nazi as his dad was a WW2 Marine who lost toe fighting against the Japanese (Nazi Germany’s ally) during Bougainville Battle. When it comes to axis, the Samurais were scarier than Nazis.
Paul G. Grubach should not be censored just because he sees differently. Here’s what Paul G.Grubach said ‘Three days after the Wannsee Conference, January 23, 1942, Hitler told his associates: The Jew must clear out of Europe. Otherwise no understanding will be possible between Europeans restrict myself to telling them they must go away. If they break their pipes on the journey, I can’t do anything about it. But if they refuse to go voluntarily, I see no other solution but extermination. Hitler added: A good three or four hundred years will go by before the Jews set foot again in Europe. They return first of all as commercial travelers, then gradually they become emboldened to settle here the better to exploit
Paul G. Grubach said ‘Hitlers meaning in these documents is clear. He had no plans to physically exterminate all of the Jews, as he realized they would still be around hundreds of years from now. Yet, he clearly realized the brutality of his plans to rid Europe of the Jews; many would die as a result of his policies, and many of the ones that did not leave voluntarily would be shot or would die of disease or starvation. …. evil policy indeed, but it is not the same as a policy to exterminate all Jews in gas chambers, to make them disappear from the face of the earth.’
Prof. RJ Evans and Ian Kershaw think the extermination policy was in codes but reviser Paul Grubach thinks intent was ethnic cleaning but not extermination though Himmler, Eichmann, Heydrich and others believed that to be extermination. Paul Grubach believes war time documents during war on Nazi Germany’s policy on Jews is more reliable than after the war testimony by Adolf Eichmann because Eichmann was going to say what he wanted to save himself. Same with Nuremberg trials, they were going to say what they could to save themselves.
I know Adolf Hitler wanted to ethnically clean Europe of Jews and I only talk of what I know. I’m not sure about the codes. Prof. RJ Evans (3d Reich @ War)& Ian Kershaw (Hubris & Nemesis) believe Hitler knew of extermination with reports given in codes such as evacuation, rather than extermination & that Hitler talked in codes when he knew plans changed to extermination. Is it possible Himmler, Eichmann, Heydrich & others did extermination w/o Hitlers knowledge Know people will differ but possible Adolf Hitler wanted to get rid of Jews, his henchmen believed it meant extermination & they did extermination when Hitler wanted ethniccleaning not extermination. Ian Kershaw & Prof. RJ Evans are good historians. Just saying my view is that possible Hitler wanted ethniccleaning only but his henchmen did extermination.
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Randy, thanks for your thoughtful and well articulated blog. One of the great things about reading other people’s writing is that we don’t have to agree with it. I think that much of what you said is true.And I do think that there are a good many on the left that are just as unreasonable as those on the right, maybe not quite as many, but still- probably why America is so very lacking in unity. I know personally plenty of both- and their existence explains to me why more rational people feel compelled to stick their heads in the sand. This explains to me why Bush got reelected. However, I wish there was a way to show that The World nor Humanity wasn’t made in monochrome black and white- that we are all shades of color and only by seeing the difference shades, will we be able to see others perspectives. I also think that seeing in perspective would lessen the need some have for extremism. I am hopeful that you will continue to post your political/ social world view- and feel free to include any data you have- another important piece of the pie that is missing.
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What I have found is that American Indian groups such as AIM complain too much about the past. Humble thing to do is say ‘yes, wars were used to take lands from American Indians, but what matters is that American Indians are treated fairly today, as what happens now is what’s important.’ Have found that on some things A.I.M. is haughty & dishonest. American Indians have talked about Whites being cowards, when they lecture about fair fights and uneven combat. Think they know that wars are about winning using best weapons & strategies & not about being fair, as war is not UFC or an NFL game. If we go by ‘fair fight’, then allies during WW2 should not have used atom bombs but invaded Japan as using the atom bombs would be ‘uneven combat’ while a ground war where more lives both Allied & Japanese get killed. Idea of wars is to win & the US did what they believed would be the fast way to end war-my view always has & will be that the atom bombs should have been dropped elsewhere in Japan with fewer deaths (3 year old German, Japanese & Italian kids are innocent) but they did speed end of war. If Japan, Germany & Italy had the atom bombs they would’ve used them against us & we may still be dealing with them today.
A.I.M. is not credible when they say Whites were cowards, because think they know that Whites were smart in having better weapons & strategies & that it would be dumb to go to a war with ‘fair fight’ thinking. Yes Whites did things for their own interests against the American Indians as wars were used to get land from American Indians, with American Indians sometimes being badly treated. When people want something, they take it. Whites had better technologies, weapons & strategies. But thinking is the same. If American Indian tribes (esp. tribes like the Sioux, Comanches, Apaches, Aztecs, etc.) had better weapons & capabilities, they would have been conquering other places in the world & imposing their laws on others. Have talked with American Indians who admit that the talk of stolen land means you did what I wanted to do. Long Knives or White Eyes did what you wanted to do as to say otherwise is talking with forked tongue.
Truth about greed is that Whites were just better in getting the lands. Before the Whites, American Indians when they wanted land be it living grounds, hunting grounds, burial grounds & fishing waters got it from other tribes by wars. When the Whites came, they wanted the same things & more be they metals such as iron, gold, silver, copper & bronze. Truth is that when people get advanced & complicated in their technologies, the more they want. American Indians again fought for land based on what was known to them & Whites did same thing. When people get complicated, they want more things like metals, oil & Uranium because demands go up. People are just potentially greedy. Whites were just better in getting what they wanted & again, all this talk of stolen land means you did what I wanted to.
AIM talks of how bad Whites are, yet have no problem using technologies which Whites made or sending kids to schools to be taught by White teachers. What’s important is that all ethnic groups get treated fairly & it must not be us against them. But with history-do American Indian groups complain too much about past ? Yes, our nation’s treatment of American Indians was bad in that their lands were taken but let’s be honest-this complaint about stolen land means -‘you did what I wanted to do.’ American Indians must be treated like all other groups but all this complaining about past esp. again when it becomes an Us against them thinking is you did what I wanted to do.
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I have read comments by Whites raising the fact that they treat Blacks, American Indians & other groups fairly & that it’s wrong to condemn them for past wrongs which happened long ago, such as slavery. I believe it’s wrong to condemn people for past wrongs & what matters is that they are fair. But there are Blacks, American Indians who condemn Whites no matter how fair a White person is. This condemning is wrong. If a White person treats a Black, American Indian, etc. fairly, then don’t make an issue. All ethnic groups must be treated fairly, which also means that Blacks, American Indians must treat Whites fairly. I support democracy and = rights for all ethnic groups.People are the same everywhere-Whites, Blacks, American Indians, etc.
Anyhow, if it is about seeing American Indians have same rights as all others, then I support that. American Indians must have = rights when it comes to jobs, housing & = punishment for crime based on facts & circumstances of each case. I am against discrimination. But it must not be an us against them thinking & let’s not have the Noble Savage theory because hypothetically, American Indians would have done the same thing if they had the capability or capacity to do it as people are the same everywhere.
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Lately, all we ever here about is how racist Donald Trump is and how the white supremacists support him. They’ll support just about any person who is running as a conservative. However, if you ever mention how liberals were during the time of Abraham Lincoln, they don’t want to admit anything. Liberals at that time were supportive of slavery while the conservatives were against it. Yes, that was 151 years ago, but its the principle. That comes to show that even the liberals are messed up and twisted and conservatives haven’t always been as racist as what todays society makes them out to be.
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I read Prof RJ Evans book 3d Reich @ war for second time & my thoughts. I agree with most of what Prof. RJ Evans says when he talks about Adolf Hitler wanting lebensraum or living room & Nazi Germany’s invasions of Poland, former Yugoslavia & USSR were to do things for Germany’s interests @ expense of Slavs. Germans would settle in these places, Slavs would have limited education & do things for German’s interests. Adolf Hitler knew many would die in WW2 & he didn’t care if Slavs starved to death, etc.
With did Nazi Germany have plans to exterminate Jews, Prof. RJ Evans in book among other things talks of radio broadcasts given by Adolf Hitler, Paul J. Goebbells diary, along with Henrich Luitpold Himmler’s comments where they talk of Jewish deaths, so Adolf Hitler along with many Germans would have known about Nazi soldiers Wehrmacht, Einsatzgruppen, German militias & in some cases Ukrainians & others shooting and killing Jewish men, women & kids on Eastern Front. Adolf Hitler made no secret about fact that many Jews would die in concentration camps & ghettos because if you put millions of people in camps, don’t give enough food, H20, etc. many die. Prof. RJ Evans is right that Nazis believed Gypsies, Slavs, Jews, etc. were subhumans & that highest ethnic groups were Germans and Scandinavians. Professor RJ Evans is right on these things, though I don’t agree with him on all. & here’s where I don’t agree with him.
I don’t believe Nazis killed hundreds of thousands of people in gas vans. Adolf Hitler refused to use nerve gases such as Sarin, Tabun and Soman which are deadlier than Zyklon B and carbon monoxide. Now do I think Nazis killed people in gas vans? I believe the Nazis in some cases did kill people in experimental gassings & I can believe the Nazis killed 200 people in gas chambers. But I don’t believe the #s are hundreds of thousands, because Nazis had easier ways to kill people such as starving & working people to death, shootings, beatings & lethal injections. There are hundreds of cases where Nazis killed prisoners in experiments such as cooling, high altitude, malaria & wounds. Sometimes prisoners survived such as seaH20 tests. Nazi Drs. took pictures of these experiments.
But there are no photos of Nazis taking pictures of prisoners being gassed which is why I don’t believe hundreds of thousands were killed. Prof. RJ Evans in book says that Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Hoess and Heinrich Luitpold Himmler witnessed people being gassed & that Nazis destroyed gas vans, but it’s odd that they wouldn’t photograph this while photographing experiments & it’s odd Nazis wouldn’t destroy proof of things like experiments.
In book, Professor RJ Evans talks about other things about how Hitler & other Nazis talk of how Germany lost WW1 because of Jews and that it was war against Bolshevik Jews, with Slavs being tools working with Churchill & Roosevelt. Professor RJ Evans didn’t mention this but many Soviet henchmen & henchwomen were Jewish & millions of people were starved & worked to death, killed by shootings, etc. in Soviet Gulags because of Jewish Soviet Commies such as LM Kaganovitch, GG Yagoda, etc. in 1930s called Holdomor. & some of Lenin’s henchmen such as Leon Trotsky were Jewish.
Did Holocaust happen because of Holodomor ? Among the millions who were starved & worked to death in Soviet Gulags in Holodomor, this includes thousands of Germans living in USSR. Adolf Hitler, Goebbels used words like eye for eye & tooth for tooth. 1 could say that Hitler went with view that since Commie Jews sent Aryans, etc. to starvation deaths in Soviet Gulags, that Nazis would put millions of Jews in concentration camps & ghettos where they were starved & worked to death such as building Trans Saharan railroad (Africa campaign), the same way as Volga Germans in 1930s were starved & worked to death working on Trans Siberian railway. Soviet Gulag eg. would be Dubno, Kolyma & Krasnogorsk which were run by Jews. Yes, Jews were a group involved in committing Soviet Holocaust called Holodomor 10 years before Nazi Holocaust. Nazi Holocaust was wrong as it’s wrong to send millions of people to death in ghettos & concentration camps. Only saying that Jews were not always innocent and Jews committed Soviet Holocaust which killed more & Nazis believed they committed Holocaust because of Holodomor.
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Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Axis Japan were greedy but they were not cowards & Axis Japanese soldiers did have courage fought and died for what they believed & Fascist Italian soldiers did have courage fought & died for what they wanted. Nazi German soldiers fought and died for what they wanted. Nazis were greedy but they fought & died for what they wanted and you Nazi soldiers did have courage fighting in battles such as Kursk, Nazi soldiers were not cowards, in that in Stalingrad & Leningrad battles, you must have courage. German Nazi soldiers talk of how they destroyed 3 Soviet tanks in battle & on average, Russians are stronger than Germans & Russian men can be as strong as Black men. Nazi Germans greedy, but Nazi soldiers did have courage fighting against stronger Soviet soldiers in Stalingrad, Leningrad, etc.
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