Ode to a Gay Bar

June 15, 2016

DC

On Monday afternoon I was walking along the Mall in Washington, DC, looking at all the flags at half mast in remembrance of the massacre in Orlando. It was powerful to see our nation’s capital honoring 49 people killed in a gay club. But I don’t think the weight of the thing really hit me until the following day. I was listening to a story on NPR about how the city had hired Spanish translators to explain to the parents of some of the victims, who had been killed at “Latin Night” at Pulse, the city’s biggest gay club, what had happened to their children. Many of the parents were confused at why their “straight” child had been at a gay bar. The fact that the victims had to come out after their murder was like an emotional sledgehammer. Such a common story.

I could talk all day about the shooter and the reactions from the bitterly gun-obsessed, Islam-hating right-wing narrative inventors. But I want to talk about the crime scene. More specifically, the importance of the gay bar in America.

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Friday will be the one year anniversary of the mass shooting in Charleston, South Carolina where another hate-filled man killed nine black worshipers. A black writer that admire (I can’t remember who), penned a piece about the meaning of the racist killer invading a space that was sacred to many African Americans in more ways than one. The black church is historically a sanctuary from the racism outside the church doors, a place to be in the majority and bond over common struggles. Dylan Roof invaded a safe space that had been invaded many times before.

Omar Mateen did the same thing.

As a kid in rural Georgia, there were stories about gay bars in places like San Francisco and New York City. (We didn’t know about the Stonewall Inn, just Lou Reed’s “Walk on the Wild Side.”) It wasn’t until, at age 16,  I started going into downtown Atlanta to hang out in punk rock clubs, like 688, that I discovered the thriving underground world of Atlanta’s gay bars. When the rock clubs closed at around 2 am we had a few options; Krispy Kreme on Ponce de Leon Avenue (“Hot Doughnuts Now”), the Majestic Diner, also on Ponce (“We never close but we’re often rude”) or the gay dance bars that seemed to serve drinks until dawn.

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In the early 1980s, that was mainly Backstreet in Midtown, set back far enough from Peachtree Street that it felt like a secret mission just to find the door to get in. I first went with a bunch of friends in 1981. I was 17 and still schooled in the homophobia of the South but also aware that I never fit in that Southern culture. It didn’t take long to learn that the “queers” were a part of my tribe of misfits. That was the beginning of the end of my homophobia.

All I knew was that the cool kids were at the gay bar, dancing to Two Tons of Fun or Grace Jones, smoking cigarettes and bitching about rednecks. That first night I was sure I was gonna get hit on as I entered the door with my crappy fake ID. By the time I left I wondered why I didn’t get hit on. Did I not rate? I felt insulted but welcomed at the same time. One one hand we were the straight crowd invading somebody else’s space but I always got the feeling that it was appreciated that we were loose enough to be there without starting some stupid shit.

It felt dirty and dangerous and liberating. It was clear people were risking life and limb to be there, to find a community in the shadows. There were cops and hustlers and straight thugs and repressed thugs all itching for a chance to play Smear the Queer right outside of the bar’s door. Just a block away, “straight” men from the suburbs and the sticks were cruising Juniper Street for a quick gay hook-up. (Georgia license plates have the county of registration on them so when you saw Mr. Coweta County on Juniper, you knew what was up. They just kept it on the down low.) There was an air of constant danger. And my mother always thought I was staying over at a friend’s.

Maybe most important was the simple fact that people there could be who they actually were. So many LGBT people are forced into double lives. Their true sexual selves and the persons their religion or community demands they must be. This was certainly true of the 1980s Bible belt and I am quite sure it was the case for Omar Mateen. For many, all they had or have is the gay bar on a Saturday night and then it’s back to the big lie Sunday morning. You felt like you were in an oasis of sanity and disco lights.

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But it was in those clubs that a movement from the fringe to the mainstream was born. Like at Stonewall in 1968 and Pulse in 2016. This was the flash before AIDS changed so much. It became the routine to see the Now Explosion (Atlanta’s even gayer B-52s) perform at 688 then follow the crowd, Ru Paul leading the way, to Backstreet or Weekends and dance until our legs gave out.

I’ve written about how I worked at the Turtles Records in Ansley Mall next to Piedmont Park (where it was more than rumored that gay men were having sex in the bushes). I thought I’d ask co-worker Ronnie Holland what those days were like. In many ways he my translator of Southern gay culture in the early 80s.

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Backstreet was a safe haven.  It didn’t feel safe getting there, in the early days of 79/80, we would park off site on the side streets cause we didn’t want the police to get our tag numbers and the streets weren’t particularly safe either, but once we got inside, it was total freedom.  You were accepted, regardless.  Now, that didn’t mean there wasn’t attitude and cattiness and cliques, but everyone just dealt.  To have grown up thinking you were different and strange and somehow wrong, and not ever being able to talk to anyone about it, to find a “tribe” of people who had similar experiences was “otherworldly”.  You didn’t have to explain the journey, it was a common one.

I would have to say that, for my group, the bonding was intense.  Drugs probably helped with that, but the experience of being in a group of people on the dance floor with the music building to a frenzy and everyone being a part of the same experience, was very similar to a sort of “religious” frenzy.  The music and the closeness of the bodies and people losing inhibitions and the lights and the joy……I can see how people would feel a comparison to a church like experience.  It became tribal and transcendental. You lose yourself into the group.

The gay club became an extension of our underground scene and it grew as the climate evolved. By the 1990s, Ru Paul was hosting events at Velvet, a club in the heart of downtown. But it was never completely safe. In 1973, a gay club in New Orleans was the target of an arson attack that killed 32 patrons. In Atlanta it was the bombing of The Otherside Lounge on Piedmont Road in 1997. The lesbian bar was the targeted by Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph, a “Christian patriot” who used a bomb full of nails to maximize the carnage. Fortunately, no one was killed but the terroristic message was clear. You can’t even feel safe in your safe spaces.

I was listening to Washington Post writer Justin Torres talk about the Orlando shooting two days afterwards. His first thought on seeing the news was, “Oh, my God. These are my people.” Then he spoke, in almost reverent terms, of the gay club severing as a “queer church” that rejuvenates souls. “So when you walk into the club, if you’re lucky, it feels expansive. Safe space is a cliche, overused and exhausted in our discourse, but the fact remains that a sense of safety transforms the body, transforms the spirit. So many of us walk through the world without it,” he said.

To have your church attacked by someone who had been welcomed into it with open arms, just like what happened in Charleston a year ago, is a deep wounding that cannot heal easily. Where can you feel safe if not there? And for every big city gay club with armed security (a lot of good that does) there is a small town gay bar hoping to survive a firebombing or having its patrons followed home and harassed. Can a brother and/or sister just have a drink in peace?

I have a friend named C. Ray Borck. Besides being a much loved sociology professor, he is transgender and came of age in the gay clubs. He posted a powerful homage on Facebook to those clubs less than 12 hours after the news about Orlando broke, writing:

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I have been remembering the countless nights I’ve spent in gay clubs, especially the Latinx ones, and I keep discovering moments of solace in the memories and magic of those places, as early as last week on Cherry Grove. A gay dance party is always a good time. The sexy lighting and incessant beats. Excessive drinking and cigarettes after everyone else had kids and quit. Loud fashion and incisive wit. Watching men be tender with each other and feeling like that’s the revolution. Sweating and yelling and laughing. Telling coming out stories, stories about our youths and our parents, our backwards communities and schools, having found each other in the city streets.

I didn’t need the gay bar because my heterosexuality was celebrated in every corner of my world. But I did need the gay bar for other reasons. Not because it was a “safe space” for “gender non-conforming” kids like me and my punk rock gang. Yes, we were the target of gay-bashings as well. (A guy once drove up next to my car on Piedmont Road and said, “You look like a fag from England,” and then started whacking my Gran Torino with a 2 X 4). We needed it for our friends so they could simply have a space to breath and dance and not be “gay,” but be human beings. Some were gay outside the club and some did their best performances of a “heterosexual lifestyle,” but the either way, their guard was always up. That must be why those clubs are open so late. Just one more dance, please. One more song before I have to again hear how gay people are going to burn in hell or that gay people need to be killed. And make it the extended disco mix.

Wherever your local gay bar is, you don’t have to patronize it but protect it. People you love need to be able to breathe.

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21 thoughts on “Ode to a Gay Bar

  1. Honestly, it doesn’t matter that it was a gay bar, black church, Christmas party, or even Fort Hood. The fact is, innocent people were brutally murdered. I think the reason why America is blaming “Islamic Radical Terrorists” is because 9/11 changed all that. We’ve seen that happen here on Native soil after the attacks. We saw Nidal Husan (I’m not calling him major because he was dishonorably discharged and facing the death penalty) when he shot and killed innocent soldiers and civilians in Fort Hood, TX. We saw this happen last year when an Islamic couple killed innocent people that were at a Christmas party. Now we see this in Orlando. We saw Christopher Dorner (a black man who 5 people), and the list can go on and on.

    What do all these shootings have in common? Troubled and confused individuals who felt the only right thing to do was kill innocent people. So, rather than focusing who the shooter was or who the victims were, lets focus on what can we as a country do to come together. I know people talk about trying to have peace. Lets be realistic, those mindful days of preaching peace isn’t going to happen. As a matter of fact, things are only going to get worse.

    I’ve been hearing a lot more and more about banning assault rifles. Let’s be honest for a minute, it’s not the weapon that is the issue, it’s the individual. You can ban and do away with ALL assault rifles. If someone wants to kill innocent people, they’ll find a way (i.e. pistols, shotguns, and any kind of rifle). Let me ask, how can you put the focus onto a weapon that is physically unable to commit an act of terror like that on it’s own? I can load all my weapons, put them on my front porch and tell them shoot at people (keep in mind, I live in a community where there’s lots of children). Every single time, it will not fire.

    Do I think something different should be done about allowing people to have firearms? Sure, of course I do. I heard today on the radio that there is a private court that is about to meet about putting a ban on people who is on the radar by the feds so they can’t buy weapons. So many cases across the country of people who are involved in mass shootings were once on the radar by the feds. Aside from that, there really isn’t much more that can be done. The gun hole loophole is coming to an end, there’s stricter gun restrictions that are being done. Here’s an idea, let’s infringe on everyone’s 2nd amendment right and do away with it. That’ll go over really well (yes, I was being sarcastic with that).

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  2. I wouldn’t be surprised if 1 or more of the victims were possibly drug dealers & or gay pedophiles While it’s irrelevant to fact mass murder is wrong, it’s relevant to idea of worshiping the victims, as just because some1 is a murder victim doesn’t change ugly facts of who they were before they were killed. Murder is wrong but that doesn’t mean worship murder victim. We should only say murder is wrong. As it’s a gay/lesbian pub, wouldn’t surprise me if drugs were sold & some victims were pedophiles since gays & lesbians (esp. gays) were often pedophile victims & pedophile victims often turn out to be gay pedophiles in adulthood.

    many gays were victims of pedophiles as 1 or more of the Orlando victims could have been as kids & pedophile victims sometimes turn out gay/lesbian as a result of childhood sex abuse including turn out to be gay/lesbian pedophiles. Gays & lesbians have higher drug junkyism rates because of childhood sex abuse. If it’s true that some of the victims were gay pedophiles & or drug dealers, then they’re not poor people. The poor people are the victims of gay pedophiles.

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      1. The priests who molest young boys are gay pedophiles. If a man has sex with little girls only, then he is a straight pedophile. Rush H. Limbaugh’s right when he said Jerry A. Sandusky is gay-a gay pedophile and columnist Patrick J. Buchanan condemns gay priests who molest young boys. Those priests are again gay pedophiles, pederasts or homolesters. So there are many homosexual pedophiles such as the gay priests, Jerry A. Sandusky. Though it’s repeat it must be said again. If a person has homosexual activities with a young boy, then they are a homosexual pedofile.

        I have thought about this & don’t think any1 can rebut conclusion that childhood sex abuse victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles have more risk of turning out gay/lesbian by copying the conduct they learned because think you know that conduct incl. sexual conduct can be learned. Think you know it is possible for people who are victims of same sex molestation (such as victims of gay pedophile priests) to copy this sexual conduct and do gay conduct in adulthood incl. turn out to be gay pedophiles.

        Think posters who call me ignorant, idiot know that sex abuse esp. repeated childhood sex abuse raises risk of a kid turning out gay/lesbian by copying conduct they learned from being ruined by gay and lesbian pedophiles, but they can’t rebut other than get offended. You can call me ignorant,idiot, etc., but there’s nothing any1 can say to change my mind on this. People who deny truth between sex abuse and later homosexuality/lesbianism are dishonest.

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      2. Before I have more thoughts to your dishonesty. People like Omar S. Mateen are dangerous & unpredictable. I don’t want mass murders & Omar S. Mateen should have been in prison. I don’t think people should be allowed to own military weapons & I believe that if you want to own a gun, you should go through same reqt. as owning a car such as background checks, licensing, gun training & insurance. But again, I don’t martyr or worship people’s lives because they were murdered. If a drug dealer is murdered, I believe in punishing the 1 who committed murder. However, I don’t martyr the drug dealer’s life. The Orlando mass murder’s wrong, but I’m not going to martyr the victim’s lives esp. if it turns out 1 or more of the victims were drug dealers & or pedophiles which is possible.

        An eg. of dishonesty is when psychologists call gay pedophile Jerry A. Sandusky straight & when they say 97% of pedophilia is committed by straights. 97% defines a person who has same sex behaviors as straight, if 1 does not define a person who has same sex relations with a boy as gay, then they call him straight. Jerry A. Sandusky is a homosexual pedofile. But homosexual groups say that he is not gay when his conduct defines him as such. If a person has homosexual activities with a boy, then they are a homosexual pedofile. So there are many homosexual pedophiles such as the gay priests, Jerry A. Sandusky. Though it’s repeat it must be said again. A person is homosexual or lesbian if they knowingly and willing do same sex behaviors.

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    1. You are a pathetic troll. I’ve seen this exact comment on other articles supportive of the LGBTQ communities after this senseless shooting.

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      1. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out 1 or more of the Orlando victims were pedophiles & or drug dealers. Orlando mass murder’s wrong, but I’m not going to martyr the victim’s lives esp. if it turns out 1 or more of the victims were drug dealers & or pedophiles.

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  3. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, Backstreet, Velvet, Weekends Candide. Those were such great times in Atlanta. You left off getting a greasy Krystal next door after dancing all night.

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    1. I remember Backstreet well. It was THE PLACE in the early eighties. Friday and Saturday nights with Peaches and Max at the front bar. Steve at the bar on the balcony over the dance floor. Sunday afternoon tea dances. Afternoons spent in the garden room upstairs playing bridge. Backstreet even sponsored our bowling team a couple of years in the Lambda League. It was truly my “safe place” from about 81-84.

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  4. Yes, Backstreet, The Armory, many others. I spent many Friday and Saturday nights here in the early eighties. Sunday afternoon was usually spent upstairs playing bridge with a loyal few there. Backstreet sponsored our bowling team one year on one of the gay lesgues. This was much of my life from about 81-84. It was my safe space.

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  5. People are offended by me saying that possibly 1 or more of the Orlando victims were pedophiles & or drug dealers. In gay/lesbian pubs-drugs like Meth, Extasy are sold as drug junkyism high among them. With pedophilia, may gay/lesbian pedophiles such as Jerry A. Sandusky as many gays were molested as children which ruined their sexuality & some even turn out to be pedophiles. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out 1 or more of the Orlando victims were pedophiles & or drug dealers. Mass murder is wrong but that doesn’t mean worship the victims. Gay/lesbian groups worship gay pedophile Harvey B. Milk. Now I support free speech right for homosexuals to martyr or worship Harvey B. Milk & I support their free speech right to have rainbow flag.

    But gay/lesbian groups have pushed Harvey B. Milk day on others such as Harvey.B. Milk day in schools where school kids worship a gay pedophile & that is wrong. Gay/lesbian groups also try to censor others who tell ugly truths on who Harvey B. Milk & other gay pedophiles were. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the Orlando victims thought it’s OK to push H.B. Milk day in schools & I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the Orlando victims were apologists for gay/lesbian pedophilia. While most gays & lesbians are not pedophiles, gays & lesbians are more likely to support pedophilia when it’s gay/lesbian as gay groups or their friends such as Shepard Foundation’s JC Marsden, Judy L. Shepard, Big Island Chronicle Tiffany Camille Edwards Hunt, etc. support gay pedophile Methew Wayne Shepard. It’s no surprise that Shepard Foundation’s JC Marsden & Judy L. Shepard also supports gay pedophile H.B. Milk incl. pushing Harvey B. Milk day on schoolkids. No, not all gays & lesbians support pedophilia but honestly, gays & lesbians are more likely to tolerate pedophilia when it’s gay/lesbian.

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  6. I remember many of late nights stretching into mid morning, stepping out from the doors of a bumping nightclub into retina tearing sunshine. Stumbling down the street while daytime people made their way to somewhere of importance. .I always wondered if they knew what I was hiding behind my smirk.

    I went to Backstreet my very first night in Atlanta, brought there by my favoritist Uncle and his partner of several years. It would be the first of many many trips. It was safe. Safe from hate. Safe from worrying about getting hit on by some meathead. I didn’t have to worry about getting too drunk and ending up with some asshole on top of me next to a dumpster like that douche swimmer from Stanford. I could grind against sweaty gorgeous men all night long and not one of them thought it meant I wanted to fuck because they knew that dancing was just dancing and it didn’t have to be a prelude to more. It was a safe haven for many people for many reasons.

    I am trying desperately not to allow the troll to engage but if there is a way to delete and block please and thank you. I have had my fill of hate and ignorance this week. I am so tired and almost broken by it. I just want it scrubbed from my life just for a day.

    I want to thank you for your poignant post and a stroll down memory lane.

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  7. Posters on US & People Magazine have been offended by me saying that it wouldn’t surprise me if 1 or more of the Orlando victims were pedophiles & or drug dealers. They’re offended because I think they know it’s possible but hate that I raise this because people were murdered & wounded in this shooting. I don’t omit ugly facts because something bad as getting murdered happened. Though posters know this, here’s why it wouldn’t be surprising if it turns out if 1 or more of the victims were gay pedophiles & or drug dealers. The life of gays & lesbians (though not always) often have bad childhood such as fact that many gays & lesbians were victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles as kids.

    1. People who are victims of same sex pedophilia are more likely to turn out gay/lesbian in adulthood, copying the sexual behavior they learned. In worse cases, victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles turn out to be gay/lesbian pedophiles in adulthood. This is esp. true for gay men & wouldn’t surprise me if it turns out 1 or more of the gay men killed in Orlando had been as a boy molested by gay pedophiles such as gay Catholic priests which caused them to repeat sexual conduct they learned from their abuse & possibly even turn out to be gay pedophiles.

    2. People who are victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles along with being more likely to turn out gay/lesbian are also more likely to have problems such as depression, drug junkyism & drunkardism. They’re more likely to use drugs such as Meth, Cocaine & Extasy. In some cases, junkies can sell drugs along with using them or be a drug courier or lookout for drug dealers for money. In pubs, drugs are often sold & pubs are known to get drunkards, junkies & drug dealers.

    Now I know this offends people with posters telling me how I’m trashing people who aren’t here to defend themselves. But ugly facts don’t change because some1 is murdered & it wouldn’t surprise me if 1 or more of the victims were pedophiles & or drug junkies + drug dealers because again, many gays & lesbians were victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles which ruined their sexuality & people who are victimized like this are more likely to turn out gay/lesbian in adulthood incl. turn out to be gay/lesbian pedophiles & more likely to be drug junkies incl. in some cases, sell drugs. Think the offended posters know this but hate that I’m not shy & raise this.

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  8. I spoke on June 20, 2016 to Cliff Kincaid because of columns he wrote here http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/kincaid/160618 here http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/kincaid/160615 & http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/kincaid/160618

    Now Cliff in the past, has talked of how gays & lesbians in interviews with Peter J. LaBarbera on how most media is pro-gay, fact that many gays & lesbians were victims of pedophiles as kids which ruined their sexuality with in worse cases, turning out to be gay/lesbian pedophiles, fact that gays & lesbians are more likely to be drug junkies, sell drugs as here’s an article Cliff Kincaid wrote in 2015 http://www.aim.org/aim-column/exposing-hollywood-pedophiles/ In 2010, Cliff Kincaid wrote a column where among other things discusses higher drug junkyism rates of gays & lesbians here http://www.conservativetruth.org/article.php?id=1890

    I called Cliff on June 20, 2016 telling him that I wouldn’t be surprised if 1 or more of Orlando victims were drug dealers & or gay pedophiles. I told Cliff Kincaid as I have said here-while mass murder is wrong, that doesn’t mean martyr the victims because if a drug dealer is murdered, we punish the murderer, but we don’t martyr the drug dealer. Cliff Kincaid asked on how do we know there were drug dealers & that 49 innocent people were killed. I told Cliff Kincaid the fact that many gays & lesbians were victims of pedophiles, that many gays & lesbians are drug junkies along with fact that gay/lesbian bars are known to sell drugs like Extasy, Meth, Cocaine, etc. & that ugly facts don’t change just because people were murdered.

    Cliff Kincaid hung up, because he can’t rebut. I think Cliff Kincaid was dishonest as for years, Cliff Kincaid has talked about this but on June 20, 2016, he hangs up when these facts are said. It’s possible that drugs such as Meth, Extasy & Cocaine were sold @ the Orlando gay pub as pubs are known to get drug dealers. Possible that 1 or more of the Orlando victims were as kids victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles which ruined their sexuality & don’t be surprised if 1 or more of the Orlando victims themselves turned out to be pedophiles by copying conduct they learned. I don’t think Mr. Cliff Kincaid is surprised by this. I don’t think Cliff Kincaid’s honest when he told me that 49 victims were innocent, as he also did in 1 column. I again told Cliff Kincaid that mass murder is wrong, but that we must not martyr the murder victims because getting murdered doesn’t change ugly facts about the victim. Cliff Kincaid’s reply to me was dishonest & he hung up because he can’t rebut what I said or what he has said for years in his interviews with Peter J. LaBarbera or his columns where Cliff Kincaid talked of high drug junkyism rates that gays & lesbians have, etc.

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  9. On June 22, 2016, I was walking home. On the way, I walked by a house with a rainbow flag, with a woman in front of house possibly a lesbian who was on phone. I then said pedophile flag. Woman got , told me to stay off property, said shit but I told her that I wasn’t on her property, so I had free speech right to tell her that she had a pedophile flag. I did this w/o using F word.

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  10. I talked to a Black man on June 22, 2016 after I walked by possibly a lesbian woman’s house who had Rainbow flag telling her that she has a pedophile flag. which made woman telling the Black man what I did. Black man & I both support free speech right to people to have any flag they want incl. right to have Confederate Flag & Swastikas on their property. Black man agrees with me that he’d rather see Confederate Flags & Swastikas on people’s properties because @least you know where they’re coming from & their honest while the rainbow flag is pedophile flag. Finally, I said that if he walks by her house & sees her, to tell her that she has pedophile flag.

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  11. I’m going to say something and I think it’s something that needs to be said. We live in a country that is entirely to soft. People crying because their feelings got hurt over something, people getting offended, gun laws this, assault rifle that, people threatened to hit with a whiffle ball bat. I’m sorry, but if I say something that hurts your feelings, I’ll tell you to get over it. People say things to me all the time that I don’t like, but I’m not going to bury my head in the pillow and cry about it.

    I’m one who is very proud to not only served in the United States Military, but I’m also proud to have served in Iraq. Iraq wasn’t on the top of my life of places to go, but I’m glad I went. Yes, I saw and did things I’m not proud of, but knowing that I was there helping liberate the people from a regime that’s corrupted the country for many years makes one feel better about themselves.

    I’m a little confused about something. Why is it this country would rather pay more respect to the rainbow flag than to our American Flag? People say we need to respect the rainbow flag and the people. How are we to respect a flag and the people when there’s people who don’t do the very same for the very same colors of the country they reside in? Sad thing is there’s people who are American citizens and would rather have more respect to the rainbow flag than to the stars and stripes. The American flag is more than just a flag. It’s a symbol of liberty and when we were freed of persecution from the British. It’s a symbol of all the MEN and WOMEN who have sacrificed their lives for this country. I’m an American, I’m proud to be an American, and will always put the American flag before all other flags.

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    1. Rainbow flag is a gay pedophile flag. Murder is wrong & must be punished but it’s wrong to martyr people just because they’re murdered. Sometimes, murder victims are drug dealers, drug junkies & child molesters incl. gay & lesbian pedophiles. Yes, the murderer should be punished. Peter J. LaBarbera has talked many times of gay/lesbian pedophiles & the fact that many gays & lesbians were victims of pedophiles which ruined their sexuality. Yet when it comes to Orlando mass shooting, Peter J. LaBarbera has as of this post, not discussed possibility that 1 or more of Orlando victims were pedophiles & or drug dealers.

      I’m not going to extreme by saying that all the shooting victims were pedophiles & or drug dealers because I don’t think all were. But it’s possible that 1 or more were. Peter J. LaBarbera has done a good job discussing gay pedophilia & drug junkyism, yet so far on the Orlando shooting, Peter J. LaBarbera has avoided asking how many of the victims were pedophilies & or drug dealers because ugly facts don’t change because mass murder happened & think Peter J. LaBarbera knows it’s possible a drug dealer & or pedophile was killed in Orlando mass shooting. Yes, it’s possible that if a mass murderer shoots & kills/wounds 40+ people in a shopping mall, that the mass murderer will kill or wound a drug dealer & or pedophile in the mass murder, but we still punish mass murder as it’s not the mass murderer’s place to be jury & executioner.

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  12. Again, Peter J. LaBarbera knows it’s possible that 1 or more of the Orlando Pulse mass shooting victims were drug junkies, drug dealers & or pedophiles, yet so far Peter J. LaBarbera has not mentioned this possibility. Peter J. LaBarbera has discussed many times the fact that many gays & lesbians were victims of pedophiles which possibly caused their homosexuality/lesbianism. Peter J. LaBarbera also has talked about high rates of drug junkyism among gays & lesbians. I’m not surprised Peter J. LaBarbera has so far avoided saying it’s possible that 1 or more of Orlando shooting victims were pedophiles & or drug dealers, perhaps to not be rude. But if it’s true that 1 or more of the Orlando shooting victims were drug dealers & or pedophiles, then ugly facts don’t change because 1 was killed or wounded in shooting.

    Not surprised that Peter J. LaBarbera is being shy, but I’m not. Rest is copy/paste or copy&paste but needs to be said again. Posters on US & People Magazine have been offended by me saying that it wouldn’t surprise me if 1 or more of the Orlando victims were pedophiles & or drug dealers. They’re offended because I think they know it’s possible but hate that I raise this because people were murdered & wounded in this shooting. I don’t omit ugly facts because something bad as getting murdered happened. Though posters know this, here’s why it wouldn’t be surprising if it turns out if 1 or more of the victims were gay pedophiles & or drug dealers. The life of gays & lesbians (though not always) often have bad childhood such as fact that many gays & lesbians were victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles as kids.

    1. People who are victims of same sex pedophilia are more likely to turn out gay/lesbian in adulthood, copying the sexual behavior they learned. In worse cases, victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles turn out to be gay/lesbian pedophiles in adulthood. This is esp. true for gay men & wouldn’t surprise me if it turns out 1 or more of the gay men killed in Orlando had been as a boy molested by gay pedophiles such as gay Catholic priests which caused them to repeat sexual conduct they learned from their abuse & possibly even turn out to be gay pedophiles.

    2. People who are victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles along with being more likely to turn out gay/lesbian are also more likely to have problems such as depression, drug junkyism & drunkardism. They’re more likely to use drugs such as Meth, Cocaine & Extasy. In some cases, junkies can sell drugs along with using them or be a drug courier or lookout for drug dealers for money. In pubs, drugs are often sold & pubs are known to get drunkards, junkies & drug dealers.

    Now I know this offends people with posters telling me how I’m trashing people who aren’t here to defend themselves. But ugly facts don’t change because some1 is murdered & it wouldn’t surprise me if 1 or more of the victims were pedophiles & or drug junkies + drug dealers because again, many gays & lesbians were victims of gay/lesbian pedophiles which ruined their sexuality & people who are victimized like this are more likely to turn out gay/lesbian in adulthood incl. turn out to be gay/lesbian pedophiles & more likely to be drug junkies incl. in some cases, sell drugs. Think the offended posters know this but hate that I’m not shy & raise this.

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